Why Promoting Your Best Seller Can Break Your Team

What if one of your strongest sales results is quietly undermining your culture? In this episode of Elements of Culture, Taryn and Julie sit down with Kelley Hippler, a seasoned sales leader and former executive at Forrester, to examine a leadership assumption many organizations still get wrong: that top performance automatically qualifies someone to lead people.

Kelley challenges this belief by unpacking the real cost of promotion decisions made solely on numbers. Drawing from decades of experience leading high-performing teams, she explains how misaligned promotions can erode trust, stall growth, and drive top talent out the door. The conversation explores what truly defines leadership readiness—empathy, accountability, self-awareness, and the ability to elevate others—not just hit a quota.

Join us weekly as we dig into the real stories behind work culture transformation.

Not theory. Not fluff. Just honest conversations with leaders and innovators who've been in the trenches.

Transcript

The Pitfalls Of Promoting Top Sellers

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I and I also think something that has been a perennial Achilles heel in the sales profession, which is there is a propensity to promote your top performers into leadership roles. And in my experience, probably more often than not, it winds up being a disaster for a couple of reasons. Um, one, you know, those top performers assume that people either do things the way they do, or once they show them their secret sauce, that those individuals all of a sudden are going to start to do the same thing. And that's just not how human beings work. And so I've seen cases, unfortunately, where, you know, not only do you wind up losing a top performer who clients loved, but you then turn over a team because the person didn't have the right DNA.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

At Elements of Culture, we sit down with experts in leadership and team building to explore the DNA that drives a thriving organization. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Elements of Culture. My name's Taryn, and I'm joined with my co-host Julie. And today we have a very special guest with us. I have the pleasure of welcoming Kelly Hipler. She has an extensive, extensive background in sales, business, legal consulting, but also more than two decades of experience at Forrester, a renowned research firm. So welcome to Elements of Culture, Kelly. We're glad you're here.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Oh, thank you so much, Taryn and Julie. Really been looking forward to this conversation and appreciate the great thought leadership that you both are putting out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Thanks so much, Kelly. We're glad to have you. Um go ahead and tell us, you know, we before we uh dove into the conversation and press record on the podcast, we got to hear just a little bit about your personal passion. So if you don't mind, before we get into some of the conversations on leadership and and cultural things, what's your background looked like? Um, you mentioned you kind of found yourself always as like a numbers-focused person. And throughout your career journey, it's kind of transitioned to and evolved. So let's talk about where you started, if you don't mind.

From Finance Mindset To People Leadership

Service Profit Chain And Frontline Impact

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Yeah, no, absolutely. And so, you know, pretty much after after graduating college, and I know I mentioned I I think it might have even been in high school, taking one of those, you know, personality tests that tells you, you know, what type of career you're you're best suited for. And it came back sort of saying, accountant and bookkeeper. So good with numbers, maybe not so much with people. Um, and so when I then went to get my NBA at night after my college, you know, really dug in on the finance courses and thought that that was sort of the path and the track that I was going to take. And then out of, you know, obligation, you had to take these organizational behavior classes. And as I started to take these classes on leadership and organizational design, you know, you start to realize like, that's actually what drives a business forward is the leadership of an organization and the culture. And so I found myself gravitating more so towards what I thought initially were, you know, these soft skills and recognizing that no, this is actually what um distinguishes business success is really being able to motivate your people, you know, create a good and healthy culture where they want to help win, serve, and retain clients. Um, and that was very eye-opening for me. Um, one article in particular that I still find myself going back to was the Harvard Business Reviews service profit chain and that concept back then, you know, was that, you know, how you treat your employees is how they will then turn around and treat your clients. And that was, you know, very eye-opening for me. And when you think about how many of your folks, whether it's sales or client success, they're on the front lines. They're the ones interacting with your clients. And if they're not engaged, if they don't understand the vision of the company, um if they've not bought into the values of the organization, you know, what kind of experience are they then going to have as they interact with your clients? And so I really found there was a symbiotic relationship between those two things and over the course of time, have just continued to try to work on honing my people skills. I will say there are some days where I still default to the numbers more so than the people. And that's where I think it's also great to build a leadership team with complementary skills who can also kind of help point some of those things out when uh, especially sometimes as a sales leader, you're just going way too fast. And so it really has been an evolution for me, but I have definitely found that um, you know, what I refer to as people-centered leadership is the best path to sustainable, profitable revenue growth for an organization based on my experience.

Generational Differences And Motivation

SPEAKER_02 4:24

So, Kelly, I love that. People-centered. Like, and so we Taryn and I have uh talked to many leaders, and we always see that there's either focus on one or the other. And so we'll see happy employees, but we're still struggling with sales and client relations, and or vice versa, where it's all about the customer and we see high attrition, burned out, you know, employees. And so I love this aspect of you know, the correlation is there. And I think companies are starting to learn that. Um, but what my question to you is you've been doing this for many, many years, been in the game a long time. Talk to me about how leadership has changed because leadership looked a lot different 20 years ago and how leadership looks now, and how has it changed for you as you've gone through the corporate setting and also you as a leader, how have you evolved in this understanding of, hey, there is this symbiotic relationship, and how do I lead my people well?

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Yeah, that is a great question, Julie. And I will say, you know, one of the things that I have definitely learned is that, you know, every individual is different. And so their needs are gonna be different. And while that can be a really daunting task if you think about a leader, right, you don't want to think that everybody's a snowflake and I have to get to know each person and what motivates them. Um, but you really do need to get to know your team if you really want to be able to build that type of culture. And I think if we look at um the workplace now, where depending upon the company you're in, you have as many as four or five different generations working together who have very different um expectations, experiences, and needs that you really do have to take the time to understand and invest in learning what do they value, what motivates them, so that you can help provide a path forward. And again, even within generations, like it's not cookie cutter, not broad, not broad strokes, um, but I do think really taking the time to get to know the people on your team is absolutely critical for being able to motivate them and also understanding that needs are going to be different somewhat across, you know, different generations. And for me, it's been a great education. I mean, I personally love the fact that that some of the younger generations, you know, the whole um, you know, you need to put in your hours or pay your dues. And people are like, no, I want to be compensated for the work that I'm doing. And they have a voice and they care about is the company I'm working for being a responsible steward and helping the community to be better, whether it's through the product that they sell or, you know, just giving people the space to participate in community things. And so I think there are some great things that are coming with some of the younger generations in the workforce that um, if we actually embrace and can tap into, can create a better work experience across the board for all employees.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Kelly, I have to say you're like a breath of fresh air to leadership, seriously, because I think sometimes there are people that kind of get stuck in their ways and they've been in the game a long time. And they're like, oh, we've always done it this way. Why do we have to change? Why do we have to evolve? And and everything you're saying is so, is so good because there's something to learn from everyone, right? And everyone does have a voice, but I don't think we've always given the place for their voice to be heard or welcomed. Uh, another point I want to make before we move forward is you talked about your own personal skill set, fresh out of college, and you were, you know, would be great at accounting or numbers, but your own personal skills have developed. You've recognized the need and the importance to develop certain skill sets. And I think that's also something that's necessary. No matter what generation you represent in the workforce, there's something to be learned from, you know, Gen X or the Boomers or the Millennials or, you know, whatever the generation or differences are that we have in the workplace, there's something to be learned and developed. And I think that more and more we're having to evolve as individuals so we can be in touch properly with our environments and those around us.

Two-Way Communication And Trust

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Yeah, no, I completely agree with you, Taryn. And I think the old sort of command and control and sort of top-down communication really just doesn't work anymore, at least doesn't work as effectively as maybe it did at one point in time. And so, while absolutely, you know, when I'm running a sales team, we have, you know, our monthly global sales call or sales kickoff, and there, you know, is that messaging around, you know, here's the mission for the year, here's why we're doing what we're doing, and here's how we're going to get there. But I think it does need to be balanced with having communication coming from the field to leadership. And again, going back to the service profit chain, right? The people on the front lines, they're interacting more with your clients than a senior leader ever could. And so if you have the trust of the people that you're working with, if you're interacting with them. And so, you know, when I would visit field offices, I would do an open QA or an Ask Me Anything session. I would meet with high potentials and all sales leaders. We had a sales advisory council that we met with monthly so that you can have the dialogue going both ways because you're gonna learn more about what's slowing your team down and what are some things that you can fix. And then where are there gaps in what you're trying to deliver to your clients that you can help fix? But that's not gonna happen if people don't feel comfortable sharing that information, if you haven't built the trust. And quite frankly, if they don't think you want to hear anything other than everything's great. And I, you know, had multiple conversations with folks saying, look, I can't fix problems that I don't know about. Like I want you guys to tell me what slows you down, what gets in the way, what are you hearing from clients so that I can then work with the rest of the leadership team to try to fix it. But you have to have that two-way dialogue. And I don't think, you know, certainly when I started my career, not to date myself, but that's just not how not how things worked. It was, you know, a lot more um command and control versus conversations. And we're all here to meet a collective goal of serving our clients, growing our business, um, and with that sort of rising tide, does lift all votes.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Yeah, I mean, so when you're talking about building that relationship and communication, because Taryn and I are big on the communication factor, and we notice that even generationally communication looks different. Um, and so it seems like there seems to be more ways to communicate. There's more platforms, there's more messaging, there's Teams, there's Slack, there's email, there's all these things, and yet we're still kind of dropping the ball a little bit in the area of what's being missed. But talk to me a little bit about how communication has changed. And also, I think in the word that keeps coming up constantly is you know, transparency and authenticity in the way we communicate. And so, like, we always talk about like, okay, this is corporate jargon. Say it to me in English, right? Like we see the email and we're like, well, somebody break this down. Can somebody break this down in English and send it to me? It used to be an ongoing joke on our team. Who wants to break the email down and tell us what's really going on? And so, like, talk to me a little bit about the transparency and the authenticity of communication, how that's changed too. Because I think the way even we're communicating with clients looks a lot different. Because I think they're looking for those things as well.

Clear Communication Without Jargon

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Oh, absolutely. And, you know, I do think something I've always prided myself on is just being very transparent, whether with the sales team or with the rest of the leadership team or whole company, as the case may be at Forester, in terms of, you know, hey, here's how we're tracking for the quarter, you know, and then sort of once you get into the final week of the quarter, kind of daily updates, recognizing and celebrating um larger deals. And I think to your point, Julie, part of being effective now is understanding what channels do people want to be communicated through. And so now a lot of the, you know, celebrations and um, you know, of deals may just be a Slack or a text because people aren't in offices. But I think that that's also where when you start working with a new team, just having those conversations like what's your preferred communication, you know, method? You know, do you prefer text, email, Slack, and just understanding what's gonna mean the most to your team? Do you want me to celebrate you in public, or is it more important that I acknowledge what you're doing? And so again, I think it goes back to really understanding the people on your team and what motivates them, what's important to them, and then adjusting your style to what really is gonna make that connection versus what have you always done, or what's quite frankly, easier sometimes to get something out and off your plate. Cause I know sales leaders are always um so busy, but it really does come back to what's going to resonate most with the person who's on the other end of that communication.

Turning People Focus Into Results

SPEAKER_00 13:17

Yeah, I agree with that, Kelly. Um, I want to take just a step back for a moment and talk about sales. You know, your experience in leading sales teams, global sales teams, um actually, and being a numbers person, I know that your leadership style has evolved and you're very focused on people, but thinking about those that might have leaders that at the end of the day, at the end of the quarter, they're looking at the bottom line. They're looking at the numbers, right? So, how how would you say that? How does people equal, you know, the results? How do you how do you get that people focus, the the culture, the things that you're doing to see what motivates them? What are some tangible things do you think in your experience that kind of translates to the results that maybe some of the C-suite wants to see as they're looking at the bottom line?

Developing Leaders Versus Promoting Stars

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yes, absolutely. I think there are a number of tools. And again, knowing that not all sellers are great with numbers, sometimes just actually taking the time to break it down for them. Um, so you know, one of the things we used to roll out at the start of every year is just a simple pipeline calculator. So I always refer to quota rollout day as the worst day in a sales manager's year, because no matter what you do or how fair you think a plan is, there's always no one's gonna be happy with you. And I used to tell my teams, if you're in a long time, if you're all equally unhappy with me, then I've done my job. Um, because, you know, and so, but what we tried to do to help people get over that, because I would also see some folks just swirl for and lose time around like, I don't understand what this number came from. I'm never gonna get there. And so we actually built a calculator that helps people to break it down to, you know, based on your retention rate, based on your win rate, based on your deal size, how many opportunities do you need to put into your pipeline on a weekly basis to get there? But then the other thing we did was we set up a second column to say, what's your personal goal for the year? So is it to be 105%? Do you want to qualify for winner circle? Do you want to be the top rep in the company? And so the calculator did the same thing, but for that goal. And we, a lot of our managers would then focus on getting that person to their goal, not just their quota. And in most, if not all cases, that was higher than the quota. And so that really helped to motivate. And I think, you know, some of our better leaders understood like, who are the people who didn't understand, like, hey, if you get this deal over the finish line, you realize you're gonna make X, Y, or Z in commissions. And sometimes, you know, sales reps do need that broken down for them. So I think it does sort of go back to what is somebody's goal? Or you could have somebody who wants to get promoted. And so making sure they understand in order to be considered for promotion, because this is one of the um things around consistency that I put in place, like you had to beat your plan in order to be considered for a promotion. Like we weren't just gonna promote someone to give them a bump in pay because I wanted to be confident that with that new role and the new quota that was gonna come with it, somebody was gonna be successful. So I think there are a lot of different tangible ways, but it does come back to what's important to that individual. Is it a promotion? Um, is it to be recognized? Is it a certain, you know, dollar amount on their W-2 that they're looking for? And then you sort of can adjust it. And tools like a pipeline calculator, as simple as it sounds, just saying two net new opportunities a week. Like that's what you got to be shooting for between now and the end of October. And if you do that and all other things being equal, you will get to your plan. And so sometimes people do just need that big number, that annual plan to be broken down for them, and then they can start moving forward and can can activate.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Yeah, I love I love that because I think it's practical and we can set it up. And it's also meeting people, and I think we talked about this yesterday, Taryn, where everybody learns and processes information differently. And so if you can meet a sales uh person on how they're processing the information and what makes sense, it it clicks, the light bulb goes off, and the clicking that happens, and I think it helps. And before it was just this is the this is the bottom line, and you just got chewed out if you didn't make your quota. And it was hard to understand why it wasn't happening. And I think the the clarity for people to be like, hey, these are these are the tools that I need to help me be successful, makes people engaged and on board with the vision of what you're trying to do, right? Because it sets the pathway for them. Kelly, talk to me a little bit about your um your plan, your plan and also like how you develop leaders. We have a lot of young leaders who are um getting into new CRO roles and new VP roles and things like that. And they have a team. And so let's say you're looking at a team. How are you looking at, okay, who am I developing? How am I developing as a leader? Like what are the attributes you're looking for? And just someone like you who, you know, a personality test tells you, hey, you should be an accountant, and you're like, yeah, hey, I probably need to do something with my people skills here. And so kind of developing yourself in these places you're weak. What are you looking for when you're developing leaders? And, you know, and what part does a person play in that and how much they want to meet you at the table with that as well?

Burnout, Change Fatigue, And Focus

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yeah, that is a great question, Julie. I and I also think something that has been a perennial Achilles heel in the sales profession, which is there is a propensity to promote your top performers into leadership roles. And in my experience, probably more often than not, it winds up being a disaster for a couple of reasons. Um, one, you know, those top performers assume that people either do things the way they do, or once they show them their secret sauce, that those individuals all of a sudden are going to start to do the same thing. And that's just not how human beings work. And so I've seen cases, unfortunately, where, you know, not only do you wind up losing a top performer who clients loved, but you then turn over a team because the person didn't have the right DNA to manage. And so I have been very blunt with some of our top performers who wanted to go into leadership and said, like, that's great if you want to do it. But number one, you have to be prepared to make less money out of the gates because you're one of our top performers in the company, right? You're into OA land. Um, and you are now, if you become a leader, you are putting your W-2 in the hands of other people. And you need to be comfortable with that if you're going to be successful with this. And then really need to focus on folks who want to help others to grow and develop because it really is about, you know, the sunshine is no longer on you when you're a leader. It's your job to put the sunshine on your top performers. And I think for folks who are used to getting all of the accolades, um, that can be a huge transition. And so one of the ways that we used to actually try to ferret this out at Forrester was um we had an emerging sales manager program that we would run annually, and sales leaders would nominate high potential folks who were interested in managing. And um I got accused of coming into the first session and trying to scare people off because I would tell people, you know, some of you are gonna go through this program and be like, that's great. What like when, you know, put me in coach, I'm ready to go. And others are gonna be like, thank you so much. I never want to manage human beings in my life. And for me, like that was a great outcome because I wasn't gonna lose a top performer who was gonna move into a role that they weren't gonna be happy in or successful at. And in some cases, it was kind of funny because folks would then come back a couple of years later and say, okay, I'm ready now. Like I understand now what's involved with being a leader and how it's a different job. Um, and so part of the other thing that we then realized was, hey, if we want to keep these individual contributors growing and staying with the company, but if management's not a track, then we have to add more job levels and the ability to actually move up as an individual contributor and run a bigger book of business or larger clients so that we could retain those folks. But we definitely had an emerging sales manager program. It was a way for folks to really understand like you're gonna be doing, you know, pipelines and, you know, running team meetings and like this is how what your day is going to look like to make sure that folks are ready to make that jump and make that commitment there. But then what was great about it was then when we did have an opening, we had somebody who had been through our curriculum already. We also would have like our top folks, so our best leader on pipelines, um, you know, would do that particular session. So we rotated through a bunch of different sales leaders. It was a leader led program, and folks would be much better equipped and really understand like what is this job going to entail from day one versus getting into it and being like, What did I just do? Like this wasn't what I thought leadership was. I thought they just sat around all day and, you know, chit chatted or you know, whatever vision a sales representative. Has of what their leader does or doesn't do. They're like, oh, what did I just do? And so we really wanted to be, I get again, I think it goes back to that transparency. Like, this is a completely different job. Here's, you know, the types of things you're going to be doing. And if it's not for you, totally fine. You know, we we want to keep you, we want you to grow. And there's this other path that you can take within our organization to do that.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

I love everything that you're saying there, Kelly, because it's like you're just putting it out there. Let me just be honest with you. Here's what the role is, here's what it's not. And when I think about, you know, someone who's in sales leadership and someone who might do a poor job and trying to recruit is you're trying to oversell, right? You're overselling the role and you're getting, and I think of that like used car salesman mentality, like, oh, you're gonna hype it up and you know, you're gonna say all these things about it. And and like you said, the reality is you get somebody in the role and they're completely unhappy, and you've transitioned them into something, and that you're losing that productivity from the individual selling part of the equation. You know what I'm saying? And so I I love that you're talking that it you have to be honest about it and not oversell the role because you're exactly right. Leadership is about pointing a light on someone else, not on your own, you know, contributions. And I remember a particular season of my own life where they took a top performer and put this person in a leadership management position. It was just, it was not pretty. I mean, yeah, colleagues were like, this isn't working, you know, the it just it was not pretty. I'll just leave it at that. Um talking about sales and managing the day-to-day, you know, of course, a healthy leader and someone who's honest and lets the team feel seen and heard and safe is certainly important. But sales is challenging. Um, with sales, there's quotas, there's numbers to meet, there's often burnout. Um, we all have other lives outside of our sales. Now, some salespeople might be selling while they're on the phone at the grocery store, but the reality is we all have a lot going on. So, how did you manage um, you know, the burnout, the overload with your teams? How do you keep teams focused? Because the other part of that is, and you talked about this with Julie and I earlier, it managing through the transitions of COVID and how that impacted your team. And wellness has become such a key point where uh companies are putting a focus on and trying to really help employees with that holistic approach of wellness and balance with work. So, how what's your approach with those areas?

AI’s Role And The Rising Bar For Sellers

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Yeah, no, that is a great question. And I do think we learned a lot through COVID about just needing to be more human and recognizing that people do have lives um outside of work. And I will say, earlier in my career, like when I first um became CSO at Forrester, you know, you sort of take a look around and they're like, oh my God, like we should be doing this better and we could be doing this and that. And so I was definitely very guilty early on of trying to change too much too fast and nearly broke my team trying to do that. And so we sort of came to a place where we agreed, you know, let's only try to change one major thing at a time, even though it meant leaving a bunch of things suboptimized, but really needing to prioritize because, you know, the reality of being in a sales role is, you know, you are always on the clock, right? The meter is always running. And anytime you're asking somebody to take time out for any type of training or to use a new tool, even if it's intended to make them more productive, in the short term, there's gonna be a dip in productivity. So you really need to be thoughtful and mindful about um when you're gonna ask somebody to try to change something that they're doing. And you have to be confident that the ROI is going to be there because otherwise a lot of it does just become noise and people get stressed out. And I think that's also why, you know, a lot of uh technology tools over the years that, you know, well-intentioned um, you know, CSOs or CROs have gone out and procured because their teams asked for it, they just didn't have the time to actually implement, do the behavioral change and the reinforcement to ultimately get the lift. And so what I've really pushed myself to do in recent years is be a lot more focused and focus on those things that can have the highest impact because the system can only take so much change at once. And there's so much coming at folks between, you know, the markets, your clients, um, macroeconomic conditions, um, geopolitical, you know, episodes, depending upon where you operate, um, that you're just adding to what is already a chaotic environment to be selling in and a stressful environment. And so it really has forced me to focus my efforts to try to find those areas that are gonna have the highest impact for the team, to try not to add to those stress levels as well as the noise, and definitely realized early on that I was part of the problem. Um, and so we definitely scaled things, scaled things back, um, which again, it's hard to do, right? Like you see, you're like, oh my gosh, we could be doing this better. And like if we if people only knew how to have this conversation, you know, but there are only so many hours in the day and there's only so much people can absorb. And I do think the pandemic really forced us to take a step back and say, what's the most important thing that our folks need to know right now to help our clients based on where our clients needed Forrester during the pandemic? And then if it didn't meet that bucket, then we're like, okay, it can wait. Um, and that's, you know, for for me personally, it was really hard to do. And I do, I I still apologize to some of my leaders from back then, uh, just from trying to do too much and um and put too much change through the system. Again, well-intentioned. I think a lot of people are, whether it's, you know, a product group or a marketing group or you know, a new technology, but you really do have to pace it and prioritize because again, sales is always on the clock.

Lifelong Learning And Navigating Constant Change

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Yeah. Kelly, you've been doing this a long time. I'm very and sales has changed the way we do sales, the way we communicate, um, even how we lead our teams, but how we even talk to our clients. What are you predicting is gonna happen in the next five to 10 years in sales? I see AI is coming up and it's creating some capacity for our salespeople so we can focus on the clients. And but uh, how do you see it happening? Social media is changing, like there's a lot of changes happening. Are you seeing any shifts and with generations coming in who and we're selling to different generations, right? Like it there was a client base that we sold to. Now that's looking a little different too. So much variety of generations in the workforce, and our clients look different. Talk to me a little about what are you expecting? What are, or are you expecting anything? Uh do you just take it day by day? But like I would love because you've been doing it for so long, and like nobody predicted COVID, obviously, but you know, you did what you had to do. But I would love to hear what your forecasting looks like the next five to 10 years and what you know, sales leaders need to be expecting or should be prepared for.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Absolutely. And so what I am envisioning, Julie, is that you know, sales teams will grow at a slower pace moving forward because the tools will help with a lot of the back-end work that is quite frankly not productive, um, not enjoyable. So whether it's you know helping to pull presentations together, doing research, I think using um AI tools to help with role plays and coaching are all things that will free up more seller time to be able to make sure that when they actually are in front of a client or a prospective client, they can have much more impact. And so I think it actually raises the bar on the need to be able to connect with somebody in a way that is personal, to earn their trust, um, to make sure you understand like what does their company does and how is your product or service actually gonna help them solve a problem. Um, so I think the bar is gonna get raised on needing to have those types of conversations. But I think there's gonna be a lot of technology in a supporting role to help people to do that, hopefully more effectively than they're even doing it today. And I and I will say I think some of the communication skills are some of the things that some of the younger generations may need some help with just based on some of the text messages I get from my sons. Like, you know, complete sentences are are a good thing. Um, you know, generally in our daily proof of life text, as my kids call it, you know, an emoji or a single word is is okay. But, you know, actually being able to communicate with buyers in a way that speaks to their language and demonstrates you understand their business and what they're trying to accomplish is going to be really important. And I do think it's gonna raise the bar on sellers. Um, but I think companies that are looking to use the tools to help their sellers versus replacing them will meet with much better results. Because I also think what's going to happen is, you know, I think the trust level is so low in some organizations that if reps are sitting there saying, well, if I use this tool, I'm gonna train this tool to do my job and then my company's gonna get rid of me, then you're gonna have nobody wanting to use the tools and then it's gonna be a lose lose. And so I do think being very clear with your team about why we're getting these tools, how we plan to use them, and how it's gonna help them to sell more, be more impactful. And, you know, yeah, the plan is probably gonna be to grow the team at a slower pace moving forward because we want to make sure that everybody who is here and on board is winning and meeting their goals. Um, I think companies that really do focus on that will find themselves in a much better place and with people who can serve their end clients better.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

So, Kelly, before we wrap up here in the next couple of minutes, um, what's, you know, you talked early on, just to kind of bring this conversation full circle, that you know, you kind of started out one place with very number focus, and you've learned just the importance of having that kind of people um approach. You've had to learn and develop skills along the way to do that. You've had to put in your own time and energy, I'm sure, outside of even work hours. So, you know, talking about where things are going in the next couple of years, what's like a skill set or, you know, certain things that you might be even focused on for your own personal development in this upcoming season?

Closing Thanks And Key Takeaway

SPEAKER_01 32:19

Yeah, I really do think just everybody being focused on being lifelong learners is just gonna be so important for, you know, workers, human beings in general. I actually was chatting uh with a leader last week who said, you know, our folks are really tired. We've been through a couple of MA and they want to know when the change is gonna stop. And I said, well, it's never gonna stop. Like it's it's a constant. And so the goal isn't to tell them that it's gonna stop because it's not, it's about um, how do you help them navigate it? And I think one of the best ways to do that is to just try to build that resiliency, um, you know, and encourage folks to be lifelong learners. And I do think this is also a place where leaders leaning in and using the tools yourself, you know, showing that, you know, I read, I listen, like here are some things I'm seeing, or I heard this on a podcast or an industry event. Um, so that your team knows that I don't have all the answers and everything's changing, um, hopefully creates an environment and a culture where everybody's leaning in and bringing things to the table and recognizing, you know, just to your question earlier, nobody really knows what things are going to look like in the next five to 10. I mean, maybe some people think they do. Um, some people have probably some good educated guesses. But the reality is five years from now, stuff could look a lot different, or maybe it does. If you believe the MIT report that came out that said 95% of AI projects have not met with expectations, maybe it doesn't look that different. But I think part of it is, you know, being ready for anything and just continuing to learn, regardless of the level that you're in within an organization, I think is one way to try to future-proof your career because change is is not gonna, if anything, it's gonna continue to accelerate. Um, and so helping people to get through that when you're dealing with human beings that are wired to not want to change, um, you know, it's it's a tall task that we're asking of leaders. And so part of it is just embracing that that challenge and figuring out how you can help your team through it. And it starts with being open to it yourself. I think my um Microsoft co-pilot knows me better than anybody right now and is uh giving me great, great feedback and guidance on the daily. And so I, you know, was a little reluctant at first, and now it's like, okay, as soon as I have a draft, it goes right in and I'm saving time. And so it's like, why wouldn't I do that? Why was I so resistant? And so I think it is really just about trying to create those environments where people are encouraged to become lifelong learners and leaders get comfortable that we don't have all the answers, but collectively we'll chart a course together.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Yeah, that's so good. I think remaining flexible, right? And adaptable to environments and constantly learning. I think that's what can propel anyone forward is just being being in a place where you're okay with change. And I know that change is never comfortable, but being okay to learn new things and navigate the change. Uh well, Kelly, thank you so much for your insight, for sharing your experiences with us. And um love your approach on leadership and just cultivating that culture within teams. I think is so valuable, and we're so appreciative to have you uh and your time here on the show today. Oh, well, thank you both. Really appreciated it.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

Yeah, thank you, Kelly.