You Can’t Coach Motivation: Why Top Performers Always Rise

In this episode with Eric Lurie, VP of Sales at Zeb, we unpack the truth behind performance, motivation, and what separates top performers from everyone else. Eric shares why you can’t coach motivation—you can only coach the people who already have it. 

We dig into how leaders unintentionally build cultures that look productive on the surface but lack true ownership, why accountability often feels threatening to those without internal drive, and the shifts organizations must make if they want real excellence—not just the appearance of effort. 

This conversation challenges leaders to rethink how they hire, coach, and set expectations in a world where motivation is becoming a competitive advantage.

Join us weekly as we dig into the real stories behind work culture transformation.

Not theory. Not fluff. Just honest conversations with leaders and innovators who've been in the trenches.

Transcript

Opening Quote And Mindset

Speaker 0:00

Our deepest fear isn't that we're incapable. That's that we're capable beyond our wildest imagination. Um you can't uh you can't coach motivation, but the folks, when given the opportunity to have additional responsibilities, step forward. Those are the folks you lean into. Um every team I've ever had, the top uh three or four reps did more than the bottom eight or nine put together.

Speaker 4 0:25

At Elements of Culture, we sit down with experts in leadership and team building to explore the DNA that drives a thriving organization. Hey everyone, and welcome to Elements of Culture. I'm Taryn and I'm joined with my co-host Julie. And today we have the pleasure of speaking with Eric Luri. He is the VP of sales at Zeb. This is a software dev company, but that's only part of the part of the areas of business. Um, they are an AWS partner, so they work with uh all kinds of sales and strategy. And Eric's gonna give us a little bit of his background and tell us, you know, all the heavy lifting that he and his team do specifically with driving revenue. So, Eric, welcome to the show.

Eric’s Path From Athletics To Sales

Speaker 1:11

Yeah, thank you guys for having me. Um hey everybody, my name's Eric Lurry. I'm the VP of sales on the AWS side of the house at an Amazon partner called Zeb. Uh, we also have partnerships with Databricks Salesforce ServiceNow, but most of my focus is going to be on the AWS side of the business. We do a thing, uh we do a lot of work in AWS migrations, generative AI, machine learning, database work, uh, security application development, but you'll hear me talk about a lot of those throughout the podcast today.

Speaker 4 1:37

Perfect. Yes. Thank you for backing me up there because I I couldn't even touch on all the details. But but you, you, Eric, you guys do a lot. Um, you and your team do a lot. We were just talking briefly about some of the things that you guys build and um your specific, it's very seems like it's very customized to a lot of your clients. Um, and it has it really comes about from doing a lot of listening and being really intentional with your clients. Can you talk us um through that? But before we kind of dig a little bit more into Zip, give us your background. If you're like a lot of sales leaders, Eric, what happens is you aren't really intending on landing in sales, yet somehow here you are.

Moving Into Cloud And AWS

Speaker 2:16

Yeah, uh Taryn, that's a I would say that that's the story of most of the salespeople I know, most of the sales leaders I know. Um, I think a lot of people, if you're outgoing, your friends and buddies all say you should work in sales. And I think they're wrong. Like I think there's a lot more to working in sales than being outgoing or personable. Um, it's not just about being an extrovert. In fact, some of the best salespeople I know are actually introverts in their core. Um, my background prior to working in sales was in athletics. I was a high school athlete. I thought I was gonna play ball in college. I had some scholarship opportunities. And I, to be fully transparent, I was a dumb young kid and I got hurt off the field and I lost all my scholarship opportunities. I was in my early 20s, I got my first job in sales, I was selling cleaning, I built a cleaning company on the side, and I was really looking for uh I was really looking for a way just to build some extra income. Uh I thought sales was the most money I could make with the least amount of education required. Uh, I got a job at a company in Delaware called Corporation Service Company, uh, where I was selling incorporating to mom and pop businesses really well there. Uh, I moved onto their corporate hunting team where I was working with some of the Fortune 500 companies. Ultimately, I ended up moving from Philadelphia, where I was living at the time, to Los Angeles to take a job for a uh software company. We were a CRM plugin or a plug-in to Salesforce that helped uh salespeople prioritize leads. It was a great entry point into software and tech in general, as I was already using uh sales software, so was reasonably familiar with CRMs and dialing platforms. And then from there, I was recruited to an AWS partner uh back before I could spell AWS, to be perfectly honest. Um, and then to pivot that, Taryn, directly into what I'm doing today, as I built my career in sales, it dawned on me that the vast majority of people I sat next to and worked around didn't do the things that made them successful in their careers before sales. They didn't practice, I didn't read or study game film. Um, and that was some of the first things I started doing. Um, so early in my career, my father-in-law was a CTO many times over. And when I got my first job in tech, I literally called him every Tuesday and presented our software to him. And he sent me a report card of what I did and didn't do well. Uh, shout out Bill Hine. Um, but for anybody who wants to get better at their job, ask your father-in-law what you're not good at. I promise he'll give you an unfiltered opinion. Um a tip.

Speaker 4 4:45

What a tip, Eric.

Discovery First And Consultant Mindset

Speaker 4:46

It was it was a huge, a huge moment for me in my career, both somebody who would be honest with me and and somebody who understood what I was doing. Um, as I moved from uh legal services sales and software sales into cloud sales, my entire outlook on sales started to change. Um, when you're selling software, you're selling legal services, you're selling something that's pretty standard. And as we started moving into cloud development, whether it was around generative AI, which didn't exist almost 10 years ago when I got started, uh, or machine learning or cloud migrations, the purpose that each company wanted to go through that exercise with was different. The underlying infrastructure was different, their technical landscapes were different. And we had to learn to be consultants, not just salespeople. Um, and one of the first things that I started coaching on when I got into sales leadership was how to be genuinely curious. Um, and that's where I talk about the difference between being an introvert and an extrovert. I find that introverts ask purposeful questions and folks that study their craft ask purposeful questions. And often we want to understand the inner workings of our customers. We truly are looking for ways to advance their business, help them generate more revenue, help them be more efficient, help them be more operationally efficient, more secure often. Um and we need to know the motivations behind it. So it often starts with asking great questions. Um and we, I would say the the biggest difference between us and some of our competitors is that we'll slow down to speed up. So before I will put a proposal in front of a customer, before I will tell a customer what I think they should do, we really slow down to go through discovery. My technical counterpart at work, his name's Tim, excuse me, his name's Tim Patterson. Um, I've worked with him across the last three companies for a little over five years now. Uh, regularly says we don't ever put the solution ahead of discovery. And that truly likens us to being consultants first.

Speaker 3 6:38

Yeah, Eric, I love that because I think that is probably the missing link in some of the sales teams Taron and I have been exposed to. Talk to me a little bit about how you coach your team not to be just salespeople, but consultants and how to stay curious. What does that look like? And how does it differ with what you're seeing across other networks and other sales teams? Um, what's the difference?

Coaching Curiosity And Listening

Speaker 7:01

Yeah, that's a that's a great question, Julie. Um, because we work with Amazon, Amazon often funds some of the work that we do for their customers. We help to accelerate a customer's adoption of AWS services, and because of that, they tick and see cash. And a lot of the times what I see is salespeople who really focus on the fact that an engagement is low or no cost to a customer, not thinking about the long term of the engagement. When it comes to coaching curiosity, I typically coach it by almost demanding that my salespeople read. Um that's uh I feel like I just set your podcast on fire by saying that because most salespeople don't want to. Um I don't read. I'll be very clear. I do not read. Um, I listen to books on tape in the car, I spend a lot of time on flights, I listen to podcasts. Um, I spend much more time listening than I do actually reading. Um and often I have to listen to the same chapter of a book twice because I realized that I started thinking about it and then wasn't listening anymore.

Speaker 4 7:59

But here's the thing: you you have the awareness to go back and listen a second time to make sure you're really getting it. This is why no, this is why you should read. This is why you should read.

One‑On‑Ones vs Team Training

Scenario Practice And Peer Coaching

Speaker 8:08

I mean, it it happens when you read too. You you end up skimming something. And uh, Taryn, Julie, I I've been married for um it'll be 12 years next week. Um, and my wife will tell you that I am not the best listener. Uh and I I find that that's a a lot of salespeople have ADD or ADHD and they don't know how to get back into the conversation, right? So to to coach back into or to lean back into how I coach on this. I think a lot of salespeople, um, while a customer is speaking, tend to dive into the thought that the customer is speaking about in their mind and they they stop listening, especially if you have a technical person in the room or there's another person in the room. And I I found that one of the things that really worked for me was to say, hey man, I was really following you up until this point. And then I got distracted by that thought and I was thinking about this. I'm gonna put a pin in that. We'll circle back to it at the end. But can you help catch me out from where we were? And the number one place that I coach to that is in my one-on-ones, because it happens to me in my one-on-ones. I'm talking to a rep, they start telling me about a campaign or a sequence or a customer they're working on, and they'll carry it all the way through to today's problem, but I'm still stuck on the beginning of the conversation and we talk about it frequently. We just had our uh ELT off seat off-site, we call that executive leadership team. Uh, every company calls it something different. And at our leadership offsite, the number one thing that was pointed out to me, well, there were two things that were pointed out to me a lot. The first was tell your team to update Salesforce. Um, and I promise, I like many other sales leaders, have have to regularly tell my team to update Salesforce. Um, but the second was that all of my training was done in one-on-ones. We didn't do any uh large trainings as a team. And because of that, some of the training was um, I want to say disparate, like data sources with some of our customers. Um, I had a large discrepancy between the number one rep on my team and the last rep on my team. And I think that that discrepancy was showed in in multiple ways in how they handle customer calls and how they handle their calls with Amazon in a few different ways. But right now we're rolling out a training plan for next year that is every other week and starts with something as basic as what does a good call look like? And then instead of coaching in our one-on-ones, we're going to practice the key scenarios of a call. So I'm sure you guys can imagine that when I went to my team and I said, hey guys, we're gonna practice that so many eyes rolled that I I immediately was like, all right, this is gonna be a problem. And I had to explain to the people on my team who had different backgrounds, the different levels of practice. So I started with the athletes because it was the most natural to me. So the former athletes, I went to them and said, Hey, we never practice a game from beginning to end. We practice the opening drive five times. We practice what happens coming at a halftime five times, we practice an in-game pitching scenario or a one-inning scenario. You don't ever throw nine innings, right? You're never playing a full 48-minute basketball game, right? You only practice the scenarios. That's what we're gonna do in our one-on-ones. But in our larger calls, I'm actually going to have the team train the team, and we'll have folks that are uh experts at any one individual area coach. And that's how I train to coach as a uh, at least I'd say that's what I'm thinking about being more a consultant. And from my perspective, it's leading by example. So I have sellers on my team who want to be leaders. So for me to be a consultant and to really show the team that I'm listening, I chose them and tap them on the soldier or on the shoulder to lead some of these trainings and really getting them the opportunity. Um, I think the number one benefit to me as a leader, this is gonna sound conceited, um, is that I want the people on the team to shine. I'm constantly gonna put them in positive scenarios and give them the opportunity. Um, and if you're listening to salespeople or you're being a consultant as a salesperson, you're listening to your team, I promise your sales team is telling you that they want more responsibilities, not less.

Motivation, Ownership, And Leading From The Front

Speaker 4 12:11

Yeah, that's so good. As you're talking about this, you know, I'm thinking of my own personal experiences with sales teams, but also just the culture sometimes of a sales team. And whenever there's anything new that's rolled out, new expectations, new training, there there's always this like pushback. There's always the eye rolls. There, there's always the, I don't need this. Why are why are we putting, you know, more expectations? Why are we filling up our calendar with more more things? Um, but I like that your approach, Eric, is, you know, even though it's you're rolling out something where it's there's expectations for the team, there's also this customization for each individual person. If that person is developing into a leader, then the way that they interact with that training or the responsibilities that they have is going to look different. Because I think at the end of the day, everybody wants to be seen and wants to be heard as an individual. And when you're in a team culture like that, it's like, oh, I don't need this. And so there's a way to bring people up and let people shine um in their own personal strengths that I think sometimes there are teams that are missing that.

Bridging The Gap Between Top And Bottom Reps

Speaker 13:22

I I agree with that, Taryn. I also disagree with it on like a fundamental level. And what I would say is there's an old quote, and it's not by me, and I'm not gonna try to take claim for it. But the quote is our deepest fear isn't that we're incapable, that's that we're capable beyond our wildest imagination. Um you can't uh you can't coach motivation, but the folks, when given the opportunity to have additional responsibilities, step forward. Those are the folks you lean into. Um every team I've ever had, the top uh three or four reps did more than the bottom eight or nine put together. Um, but they don't always want to be leaders either. And it's important to point out that you can be a leader without having leadership responsibilities. You can lead from the front, you can uh you can show your team what the example is. But I've got a guy on my team, his name is John Panessa, he's our director of sales in the east. He uh leads our East Coast sales team and carries a quota. Um I don't know that I've ever worked with anybody that puts in the level of detail as John. Uh enough that it's mutual. We meet and I present anything to him that I want to present to the whole team, and I get his feedback first. He he then takes it and talks to the top two or three reps on his team, and we get an opinion and we try to change the way that we're rolling out. Um I I keep I keep bringing this back to athletics. I think it's just because I'm a former athlete. Um, but there is coaching to the talent on your team and coaching to a system. We we have a system and process, but each talented person on my team is here for a reason. And I honestly believe that if they failed, it's my fault. I chose that person. I put them through a ringer of an interview. I either uh enabled or didn't enable them to be successful. Um I I legitimately think that um any person who wants to be successful in this role can be, but that your want for change has to be greater than your want to stay the same and you show it in your actions.

Speaker 3 15:25

That's good. Um I was just gonna ask you, maybe you just answered it for me, but like when you talk about your top-tier sales represent reps and your bottom tier, I was gonna ask you, other than like tenure or even motivation, what do you think is the difference between those two groups of people? And is there a gap that we can bridge? Is there anything we can put on the table to bridge that gap? Um, or is the individuals having to take some level of accountability for their own um, I think I don't want to say internal drive, but maybe internal drive or motivation for what it looks like. And is it the same approach for everybody?

Learning Technical Concepts With AI Tools

Speaker 16:00

Yeah, that's a that's a great question. Um I want to start by saying that I started the sales team at Zeb in January of last year, and almost my entire team started on the same day. So I recruited and hired everyone to start on the same team. So at least for us, there was no tenure as a part of it. Um, I think that there was a couple immediate things. Uh the first was understanding. The reps that took the time to understand the things that were happening that they didn't understand were the ones that started to find success the fastest. Um, I'm not technical. I've told everybody I've worked with forever that I'm not technical. I've been doing this for eight years. I'm fairly technical. Um there are little things that you can do today that make being technical significantly easier. For example, you got ChatGPT on your phone.

Speaker 1 16:51

Ask it questions.

Mentors, Doubters, And Fuel For Growth

Speaker 16:52

Like you can create your own learning path. My wife and I have two young children, and we talk about should we be investing in a 529 or should we be investing in an IRA? And I continue to tell her this is a hot take, and I don't think that this is the hot take for the podcast. But I continue to tell her, I don't think college is going to be a thing in 20 years. You can design your entire own learning path today in 20 to 30 minutes with some catered questions. I I still today uh I don't use Chat GPT, I use Claude as an anthropic model. They're not that different, right? I think the UI is very similar. I go in every morning and I write an Amazon service and then I say, I'm not technical. Tell me what this would do in a restaurant and help me understand. And tell me how these services would interact with each other. Quick example Kubernetes is a container service, EKS and Amazon is a container service. So think it's the kitchen manager and make sure that the sous chef, the fry chef, the guy on the grill, the guy who runs the food out to the table are all working together at their individual jobs, make sure that the customer gets their plate of food. I had been working in Amazon for five years and barely understood the difference between that container service and other container services until I started asking basic questions. Then when I, as the leader of the team, am sharing with the whole team that this is something that I do every day. I literally, like, my wife takes the kids to school. I get about 15 minutes before my first meeting. I request 20 people at Amazon on LinkedIn and I ask one question about a service every morning for almost three years now. And now I talk to really technical folks that think I'm a solution architect, but I'm not. I just understand. I I've never logged in or deployed a service in the Amazon console once. Never once in my life. Uh, but I'm fairly technical. And Julie, to answer that question directly, I'd say the folks that take the time to get to that level of understanding were the ones that made a big difference. And I talked earlier about reading. Um, there's a book called The Everything Store. It's essentially a biography of Jeff Bezos and Amazon together coming up. Well, we're partners of Amazon. It would be important to understand how Amazon grew up, right? We should understand their past. Um, I've read that book, listened, I've read that book, I listened to that book on tape every year for the last eight years in January. And it honestly started as a forced exercise from the first company I worked at in this space, and I hated it. Uh, but I do it all the time anyway. Uh I think you can't teach draught. You either have it or you don't. Um, and the reason that some folks have it is extremely different than the reason that other folks have it. I think it's important as a leader to understand the motivation so that you can point to those points. The same way it's important to understand the motivation of your customer so you can sell to those points. Um I I think it's my responsibility to turn young salespeople into old salespeople or retired. Like the the goal is to help give them a career and and to show them. I think my first year in sales, I made less than I've made in a single month since. And I think if you can show someone the path and you can be open about it, you can give them an opportunity to really change their lives. No company in the world operates without salespeople. It is a forever job if you want to be good at it.

Speaker 4 20:12

That's so that's so good, Eric. And I think that, you know, that's part of it is showing the team a path forward, um, you know, and and what the opportunity really looks like. You know, I think it's we were talking before we started the podcast just a little bit. And, you know, you were saying you could absolutely coach one of your team members if they wanted to purchase something crazy like a Lamborghini, you know, if that desire is there, you can certainly coach them to do that. But there's also, I think when it comes to coaching a team, it's also understanding the individual outside of, you know, the tangible things and what they're passionate about. Um, I want to ask you a question. Uh, we'll wrap up here in just a minute or two. But throughout your career, Eric, um, you know, you had a sports background, you probably had some amazing coaches throughout the that timeframe as well. Is there any standout people, aside from your father-in-law that you mentioned, giving you that like super candid feedback, which is really valuable? And some people aren't always willing to hear that. So, you know, that just points to your character. But is there aside from, you know, that interaction and conversation that you had regularly, regularly with him, was there a coach? Was there someone, a boss, a mentor, someone who's kind of taught you what some of these values are? And then the follow-up to that is what what are the some of the main things that have just stuck with you throughout your career that has brought you to the success that you're in now?

Intent, Impact, Mental Health, Presence

Closing Reflections And Thanks

Speaker 21:41

Um, I had a few, I had three basic rules that I stuck with. And I'll put a pin in that and I'll circle back to it and I'll start with the leaders that really stood out in my mind. There's a few. Uh Kevin Gaither, he goes by K G. I'm pretty sure if he all heard me call him Kevin Gaither, he'd probably yell at me. Uh in fact, I met him when we were both speaking at a university, sitting next to each other at a class. Uh, we were speaking at Logola Marymount University to a class called Professional Selling 101. He was essentially the CRO of ZipRecruiter, and I was managing a DG team. And he put it, he got ready to write his phone number on the board and he said, if you ask for mentorship, you're deserving of it. And I stopped the class and traded information with him. And I've talked to him every couple months. Uh, we've had meals every other year, something like that, for the last uh few years. He's been instrumental in my growth and development. Um, I worked with another person named Anthony Markovic, who was fantastic. He was a professor at Loyola Maramount. Um, but he was called the Dean of the Velocify Sales Academy when I worked at Velocify. Um and we spent quite a bit of time together. Um, I worked with Chandler Collison at a company called Mission, who was instrumental in my development. Um, but to be totally transparent with you, the folks that I remember the most are those that didn't believe in me. And I promise you, I remembered those folks way more. Um I can give you a list of some of their names. Um, I worked at another uh at another company in the same space. I was uh seller and then I moved into a leadership role, managing uh the business development team. I essentially asked to move back into a sales role and was told directly by the CRO, like, I don't think you can do it. Um I left within three months. Since then, I've had three VP titles, I've had a long strain of success. I see this person all the time. I see them at conferences, I see them at some of the biggest shows. Um, and most of the time what I say is thank you. Uh thank you for teaching me how to be successful in the role and giving me the motivation to beat you. Um I promise you, I remember those. Like I like uh I saw an interview with Amon Sa Amon Ra St. Brown say, man, I'm struggling uh with a wide receiver on the Detroit Lions. Um Amon Ra is his first name. Uh and he chose his jersey number by the number of players at his position drafted in front of him. Uh that was that was something that that I just like feel in my core. Um, and then the the second half of that question was what were some staples and some things you did in your career? Um I have three rules and I stick with these three rules. Um, one, I'm a very emotional person. Emotion is sometimes a good thing and sometimes a bad thing. So I have a 48-hour rule. I don't make any decisions in less than 48 hours that are major. If you ask me to make a decision in less than 48 hours and you won't give me the opportunity to take the time that I need, I say no. Because it's very clear that that's what our relationship is going to be like. Afterwards, I've learned my lesson. The second thing is I've defined success. And every other person's definition of success is different. But my definition is freedom, and that's freedom from pills, freedom from concerns, freedom from anxiety, freedom from a schedule. Um, some of those things I've mastered already, some of them we're working towards, uh, and hopefully early retirement will help me there. Um, and the last is I built core values. Um, I had a buddy named Lewis Glover. Uh, he works at Rackspace Today. He and I have been friends for 15 years. We used to do heavy workouts together, and after the workouts, we would go grab a meal and hang out and chat before we drove home. And he asked me at the bar one day, how many companies have you worked for that have core values? I was like, all of them. I said, But how many people do you know that have core values? And it honestly felt like he punched me in the stomach. That was the first time in my life that I realized I didn't know what was important to me. And today I have four core values. Um, and I'll tie this all up into this one right here, because I think this is the final answer to drive home. Uh the first is intention. I said daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, and yearly intentions. And if you ask me to do something that doesn't align with my goal, I say no, I don't do it. And I can give you a reason why because it doesn't align with what I want from my life. Um, the second is impact. I sold things that didn't matter to people who didn't care. Never again. I want to make an impact in uh the the companies I sell to, in the company I work for, and in the folks around me. And if I can't make an impact, I don't feel like it's a good place for me. It's not a job that's gonna fill my cup, right? Um, next is mental health. In 2018, I met a guy who was the CTO of a men's mental health application. And ladies, when he said that to me, I laughed at him in his face. I was like, man, you just eliminated 51% of your purchasing audience. And he told me that nine out of every 10 suicides in the United States was a man. And of that, four out of nine of them were between 25 and 45-year-old white men, and four out of nine of them were um uh 18 to 32 year old black men. And at the time I realized that that was pretty much my entire network was people in that category. Um and when he said it to me, it had this kind of like earth-shaking experience for me. I go to therapy every other week. It is on my calendar, I block time, make sure that the folks on my team are aware that they can go. Um, when you're on a plane and the plane's going down, they say put your mask on first. So if the sales leader's listening to this, only hear one thing from this entire podcast is take care of yourself first. Can't help anyone else if you don't take care of yourself. Um and my last one is presence. Uh I'm talking to y'all, I'm not on my phone. I'm not checking Teams or Slack or email. When I'm with my family, I want to be with my family, not checking Teams, Slack, text messages, email, etc. But that also means that when I'm at work, I'm at work, I close the door. I try to spend that time at work in my office with focused time. That last one is the most difficult for me because there's so many things going on. I have a four-year-old and a two-year-old, or an almost two-year-old, so a lot of things going on. I promise you, my sales team will tell you that they've been featured on many calls. Um many calls. Uh, but it was really important to me to be able to dedicate time. And I would sum all of that by saying it is my intention to impact the mental health of the people around me through my presence. And everything that I do at work stems into those three activities. Uh, and those are both the 48-hour rule, um, my like kind of internal board of directors or the people I speak with and these core values. Uh, and these are things that I talk with all of the leaders in my career about. I make sure that we are all aligned in what I'm looking for. Uh, I think when you're looking at companies you want to work for, you want to look at the product, you want to look at the team, but you want to look at the values of the company. Do they align with something that you want to deliver to the world?

Speaker 4 28:45

Wow, Eric, thank you so much for um sharing just those nuggets of wisdom that you've um been able to receive throughout your career. Thank you for sharing your heart, um, your personal passion. It's it's so interesting. Even this morning, I was listening to a podcast and it was talking about like your purpose and your story. And, you know, you really do have to be intentional about the things that you say yes to. And does it align with your values? Does it align with your core purpose? And I think that sometimes in sales and even in the corporate space, we get lost sometimes. We get lost in the minutiae, the day-to-day, the culture of everything that sometimes we lose ourselves. Um, so I do think that therapy, I think that talking, I think community, all those things bring such value and grounding you as an individual so that you can have greater impact uh with your sales team. So you can have freedom in your own personal life. Those are all so good. I think that we could spend really hours talking about some of these topics. But I just want to say thank you for sharing your heart. Thank you for sharing your leadership, um, your experiences that you've had with uh those that that have uh been a part of your journey. It's been so refreshing to hear from you today. So thank you, Eric, for coming on the podcast.

Speaker 30:04

Absolutely. Thanks for having me on.