Scaling Teams Across Borders: The Hidden Mistake Companies Make When Expanding Globally

What if the very systems you built to scale are the ones holding your team back? In this episode of Elements of Culture, we sit down with Huub Wevers, Chief Revenue Officer at Nomentia, to explore what happens when leadership outgrows its own playbook.

Most companies claim to value culture, but few know how to preserve it when crossing borders. Huub challenges the idea that success comes from standardization — revealing how the best global leaders win by adapting, not replicating. From sales strategies to team dynamics, he exposes the pitfalls of one-size-fits-all leadership and shows why flexibility is the new competitive advantage.

If you believe scaling is about efficiency, this episode will make you rethink everything you know about growth, leadership, and what it really means to build a unified team in a divided world.

Join us weekly as we dig into the real stories behind work culture transformation.

Not theory. Not fluff. Just honest conversations with leaders and innovators who've been in the trenches.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Background

Speaker 0:00

It works much better if you have a lot of experience in the field because people like to go into detail. And then if you're a person that goes in detail, then there's nothing worse than putting a sales person in front of you who only knows things high level.

Speaker 2 0:14

At Elements of Culture, we sit down with experts in leadership and team building to explore the DNA that drives a thriving organization. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Elements of Culture. My name is Taryn, and I'm joined with my co-host Julie. And today we have the pleasure of speaking with Hoop Waivers. He is the chief revenue officer at Nomentia. This is a European-based company. They have multiple locations across many countries. And Hoop, we're so excited that you are jumping on today just to dive into so many conversations about leadership, about culture, sales, and the shifts that you're seeing. But before we get to all of those topics, do you mind to just share with everybody about your background? Because you weren't always in sales. You've been in tech and some other things, but help paint a picture for everybody if you would.

From Tech And Banking Into Sales

What Nomentia Does And Why It’s Consultative

Speaker 1:06

Thank you. Thanks, uh Taren. Yeah, I haven't always been in sales. I've been in sales for, let's say, the last 10 years, roughly. Uh before that, I was actually uh started in tech, really, yeah, just doing uh tech projects uh delivery. And then I somehow ended up as many people, I think, around that time in banking and uh very much enjoyed that. Uh I especially enjoyed the more international nature, worked for global bank, uh, across many, many countries. And I somehow ended up doing lots of operations, service, uh, more on the let's say the implementation, execution, and delivery side of the business. Um, albeit everybody always referred to me as the person that would go out and have some conversations with clients, etc. So yeah, that was already there. I already there loved talking to clients and trying to see how we could bridge the gaps if there were any gaps there. That was always nice. And then 10 years ago I maneuvered myself a bit more into sales, tried to yeah, make it my my daily life to actually talk to clients and sell. Which I really love. Um it's actually the hardest part of my current job that I uh I get to speak to clients a little bit less, um, which I still do like, uh so I do still do get myself out there for yeah, longer sessions that we have to uh to listen, to learn, and hopefully bring a bit of a perspective. Um I manage a team of 25 salespeople plus a marketing team across eight countries, and uh we work in a company, so it's a software company. Uh we make a service which um the software as a service which allows corporates to effectively make their payments, um, so salary payments, supplier payments, and very importantly uh allows them to understand how much cash they have, what their forecast of cash is, and what the risks are if you like in an international environment are dealing with multiple currencies and doing some lending and things like that. So it's uh it's a kind of business which also makes us uh be very consultative and it's not yeah, it's not something you decide to buy in on a Friday afternoon. It's a long process, and yeah, so we work a lot along that process with our clients.

The Appeal Of Working Across Countries

Speaker 2 3:33

That's amazing. Um thank you for going into those details. It's the the international, the global focus that you have, I think is so exciting. Might be because my own personal background and just, you know, who we were having a conversation before we started uh the podcast today, just about, you know, your your own personal pull into the the global side of business. Let's talk about that a little bit. What is your perspective and your experience that you've been able to have in working across so many different nations? Um, because I think for some of us leaders and those that we get to talk to, sometimes we're so focused on just our own market. And as we want to scale as a business, there has to be a level of understanding of what it would entail, what it would look like to scale. So, number one, tell us a little bit about what the draw is in working with multiple countries. And then two, how a business could even begin to position themselves for global expansion.

Cultural Nuance In German Sales Cycles

Speaker 4:38

Yeah, the draw. So for me, the draw has always been in the sense that there is not there's not the one solution for a problem. There can be multiple ways of, yeah. There's there's multiple roads to roam, as the saying goes. And um, and you have to experience that yourself a bit. So I I worked in a number of countries as well. I mean, worked in the US, in Chicago, worked in different places in Europe, and then after the first moment of like, why the hell are they doing it like this here? After you get across that point, you're like, Oh, okay, okay, I think they're getting there as well. It's just a different route, and sometimes yeah, it it gives you lots of insight. Um, and I think that's also where um yeah, scaling businesses across jurisdictions in different countries is really important to understand. If you're, for instance, where I am at in the Netherlands, there's a lot of local software companies scaling into Germany, and then you need to understand that if you're wanting to engage and have a conversation with a German client, you just need to multiply the number of meetings times two, because they're just a little bit more into the detail. They they just want to have a more comfort feeling, they're less um, I wouldn't want to say adventurous, because they can be adventurous, but on these decision decisive things, they're really careful and want to understand it better. And it's uh and there's no good or wrong. It's just that's how people do business. And it's understanding that and not looking at your numbers and saying, hey, why do they take so long? Why do we need to have so many meetings? It's yeah, adapt and accept.

Leading Multinational Teams By Strengths

Speaker 1 6:23

So, Hoob, talk to me a little bit because as we are seeing now, the global market is getting a lot smaller. We are seeing a lot of the companies, um, even the tech companies and other companies utilizing resources from all over the world. And so they have multinational teams. Talk to me a little bit about how you um lead and help in the collaboration of not only multiple teams and multiple nations, but like how do we um help people understand those nuances as you're talking about culturally? And I agree with you on the um German side of things because my husband used to work for a German company, and he would tell me, he's like, I don't know why we have all these meetings, but you're right, it's all about the details. It's all about the details. Yeah, it's all about the details. So I I absolutely understand that. And so, but how do we help a team? Let's say there's a leader here that has multinational teams, how do they help in the collaboration of that and unifying?

Standardization Versus Local Flexibility

Speaker 7:19

Yeah, it's it's using each other's strengths. Uh, because uh yeah, like in the German example, um we uh for instance, yeah, we are when we're reviewing our contracts, for instance, um, I would not do the German contracts last, I would start with the German contracts, um, and then also have somebody in Germany, his German sales team, take the lead and point person, and then work our way through that and then go to the other countries. It's it's uh this these are little examples, but it's also um yeah, when in my case I have a number of teams, and teams are geographically organized, so it means that you know I have my UK sales head, uh Dach saleshead, Germany, and that way you can also use each other's strengths to take the lead in different elements of the business um and to to lead the way. Um and it's yeah, and trying to move stay away from yeah, the one size fits all, uh, because that's that's not gonna work. There needs to be a foundation. Um, so if you look at a typical sales organization, you always have some sort of a sales operations function. And I think the moment you start hitting more countries, your sales operations starts to become more important, and then not just the number side of business, but around the standardization for lack of a better word. But it's okay, which are the parts that we are gonna agree on that we're gonna do all across, and which are the parts that we can allow people to deviate. So, indeed, how do I, if as a development person, how are they gonna do their outreach per country? Which parts are generic, which parts are can we are we gonna do different differently? Uh we at the moment actually are combining a bit sales operations and marketing operations, it's same there. Um yeah, we don't wanna some words you simply don't use in some countries and others you do, uh, and the tone and deviate, but they're all running the same campaign, but it's deviating on the yeah, on that level.

Speaker 1 9:23

And what would you say uh with the mistake that you see companies make when in regards to international companies?

Adapting Sales To Market Conditions

Speaker 9:30

I think they make the mistake in the hiring process. So we I've had my fair share of mistakes there as well. Um so you uh typically uh uh translate the people that you're looking for in your team. They might have a different nationality, but you're still looking for the same kind of yeah, teams. So as an example in sales, there's always discussions if you're hiring an expert in the s area that you're working in, like in my case, yeah, treasury, or if you're hiring a sales expert or somebody with a lot of sales background. And um and we have learned also along the way that it it simply works differently in some countries. So coming back on the German example, it works much better if you have a lot of experience in the field, because people like to go into detail, and then if you're a person that goes in detail, then there's nothing worse than putting a sales person in front of you who only knows things high level. And there's no right or wrong, but it simply doesn't match. And and it's yeah, those kind of deviations, and and we see that most yeah, when we have uh our we have a monthly sales call and then salespeople get to present uh new clients that they have brought in and how that process went, what they have learned, and who the client is. And it's always interesting to see that yeah, in some cultures these deals are done much quicker, also from a client side. And yeah, yeah typically the new salespeople in other areas surprised on their faces, always priceless on like how do you do this so fast? And yeah, and they're always coming in thinking there's this magical bullet that they're using or something, until they start realizing like okay, that is normal. Yeah, but it's a different it's a different ball game.

Speaker 2 11:29

That's so good. As you're talking about this, Hoop, and you know, I think one of the things that you that you mentioned that really stood out to me is you have to remain f uh adaptable as a team, as a leadership team as well, because each market that you're in, each country, you have to have some flexibility. So you said there's there's key pieces that stay the same and stay consistent, but then there are other things that you have to have flexibility. And I do think that sometimes in our narrow way of thinking, we don't always make room for another culture or another person's thought process. And you really do have to be open to that, not only from the employee side, but also for your clients.

What Young Sales Leaders Must Learn

Speaker 12:12

Yeah, but it's yeah, but it's I mean, we talked before about scaling in a software business. Everybody talks about scaling because yeah, use the same software 10 times or 100 times, cost doesn't change that much. In the word scaling already lies the idea that it's they're scaling the same thing all over, uh to everywhere, doing it all the same. And and that's yeah, actually should not be the case. I mean, of course the for again is the same, but then also within the software there will be buttons that some countries hardly use and others do. But then the way you bring it and how you sell it is is very different. Um and it's uh yeah, what I see in practice that it means is that um especially if you grow a bit larger as an organization, is the level of flexibility to um to deviate on on pricing, on how projects are to be delivered, um because everything around scaling again is is breathing, like we have to do it all the same because then we can scale. Um and and I buy into that for quite a degree, but yeah, be careful like sure. Uh yeah, there's many cases and and I think you're American companies. I mean we talked a bit before, America is a very big continent, Europe is a big continent, yeah. In Europe in America things are a bit more similar, especially on the software corporate side. There's a bit more a more similar culture than you would find in Europe. And then we see quite a bit being a European company that some of our American uh competitors would be a bit more consistent. Uh but then yeah, you you you also see where it then leaves opportunities for us very easily because some countries it just simply requires a different way of working and it doesn't fit then in a certain scaling mindset.

Speaker 2 14:12

So I yeah, that's so true. I think the flexibility, I want to go back to the sales side just for a moment who before we um jump to another topic. On the sales side, what are some of the challenges that that you see with your teams? You have multiple sales teams and across different countries. What are some of the big challenges that you see, whether it's with your team or just in the industry in general? Um, but also a second part to that is what are those challenges and how do they look differently across different countries or are they the same?

AI, Data, And Changing Buyer Profiles

Events, Human Connection, And Trust

Speaker 14:48

Yeah. Um yeah, some of the challenges at the moment are a bit of logically that there's there's quite a bit of political turmoil. Um, and we are in a space where uh we're dealing with CFOs who typically are, especially in a corporate setting, are the ones that are carefully monitoring if time is right to make buying decisions, etc. Um, so we find that at the moment it's um it takes a bit more time. Um so we yeah, we still do our thing and and that's working. Um and it's then depending a bit on how when you're selling into different jurisdictions, how different countries deal with those challenges. And um there are well, actually coming back on the German example, that's actually an example where they might be very careful and a bit more detail focused, but they're actually um they have set their mind, they are gonna go and do that project, they want to make those improvements, they want to make their targets and objectives, and they're not gonna let themselves stop by outside events um within limits, but the current limits it's still they're pursuing, they're continuing on uh their journey. Whereas in other markets we see that sales then needs to adapt quicker and yeah, go a bit with the market, which is yeah, offering it a at a discount, or break it up in different sub-projects, make it more agile, make the risk a bit lower for the clients so they can first try and test and see. Um, and that's where yeah, in different markets you can adjust differently uh from a sales point of view. Yeah, that's what we see.

Speaker 1 16:43

So Hoob, I see that you had said that you've been in sales about 10 years. Um talk to me a little bit about that transition and what are in the past 10 years, what are some things you've learned as a leader, some skill sets, some attributes that you had to shift and kind of grow in as a leader? Because sales is a little bit of a different beast and managing salespeople can be a little bit uh so what are some skill sets? Like if I had some young leaders like who are looking at this, what what are they what do they need to prepare for?

Practical Advice For Modern Leaders

Speaker 17:13

Yeah, well, I always I have worked quite a lot in managing managers and hiring many people, and I always say in sales, actually, it's the easiest to hire people because if you can't sell yourself, then yeah, that's it. Um for me, um sales is a different ball game uh from a people management point of view, and it's you need to strike the balance between being very performance-driven and also giving people opportunity to to learn and grow, make mistakes. Um I mean, we're sitting in here end of quarter, um and yeah, there are of course some salespeople now sweating and trying to get this last signature in place, and maybe having thinking at that moment, like I should uh walked procurement through some of the steps earlier. Um so for me, yeah, what I've learned in the last 10 years is to um as some of my uh sales heads would say that they're sometimes surprised that I'm keeping quiet longer than uh they would expect. So if there's let's say a discussion and yeah, they're feeling very passionate about what yeah, and and not agreeing with some of the things that I've learned over the years that it's sometimes it's good just to let things be out there in the open and then see what's what's actually the issue and talk it through. Uh some of the issues they typically resolve themselves before you even have to worry about them. Um and it has changed in the sense that I mean um yeah, things are faster now. So it's it's and I see that with our younger uh newer salespeople. I mean, AI is a good example, um, could have been another example as well, but they're the first ones that are pushing our sales ops teams to try more, to use more of it, uh, to innovate more, um, to work differently. Uh not not to have too many calls on how treasury is changing, but have more calls about how sales is changing, um how they can do their work better. Um and using tools, we have uh, yeah, like most sales organizations, more capabilities now to look back meetings of others because a lot of things are done online. Um, and new younger salespeople are have a tendency of really yeah using more of that. Whereas the older ones are a bit like, why do I have others show my face? And like, let me just do my thing charging a bit.

Speaker 2 19:51

So you said today it's the end of the quarter right now, and I know you are um over in Amsterdam, so your team still has until the end of business today to come knocking on the door with.

Speaker 20:05

It's uh it's uh 12 o'clock finish time.

Speaker 2 20:09

Yeah, so they still have time. They still have time. Talk you talked about AI, you talked about some of the technology and things. What do you see um uh as you're looking at trends specifically in your industry, in the SaaS space and the treasury space? Um, do you feel like companies are grasping the importance of involving AI and some of their processes and systems? Do you feel like some companies are falling behind? What's your take on that and and where we might be in the next year or two?

Speaker 20:41

Yeah, so we um so we're in a very data-rich environment. So lots of yeah, numbers, financial numbers, etc. So we've always had for the last yeah, six, seven years, always had on the data cycles of yeah, machine learning with groups under AI. So that's something that has already been done quite some time. The newer part is more the generatives, the language uh models, uh, which is really helping corpus on reporting, etc. Yeah, I think most companies are um, I mean, everybody's testing it, um, and then some of them are actually starting to integrate it in their day-to-day process. Um yeah, I think that for me it's um Yeah, I don't know. It it's always it's it's a difficult one because yeah, we've been for us the biggest gain sits on the data side. So it's really on the yeah, the machine learning and and then combining that with some language models to make it easier to get the data. So instead of having to look at my numbers and say, okay, what's my current exposure in in the British pounds, I can just type it in and the system will tell me. Um, and then that's really powerful. Um but it's uh the the the industry that we're in is changing, and that's the interesting part for me as well, is that the counterparts we're talking to, so our clients are also becoming younger. Uh there's much better mix between men and women, with more women coming in the field because finance has always been pretty male dominated. Um, and that changes dynamics as well, makes makes the industry a bit more outward looking. And then that's something we on our side have also been trying to do as well, because being in tech is also pretty male dominated, trying to bring in more uh women, more younger people, and and trying to yeah, get that outward, more open view. And that's uh that's changing. Yeah, and that's good. I like it. Yeah. The interesting part about AI is that uh what we see now is that because of AI, of course, subtooling and and mailing and lots of stuff you can do. And we see a bit of a trend at the moment going back to events more. We have uh yeah, at some point, I think two years ago, we were like, well, are the events gonna die or just gonna be a few of them? But there are actually a few new ones popping up now and and read more new formats, a little bit less on the content, more on the networking, and really yeah, allowing more spaces for people to interact and to also just simply talk to us and instead of you know being stalked as they perceive it sometimes, uh having the ability to you know take it in control and at an event come by and talk.

Speaker 2 23:34

Yeah, that's so good. I think you know, for a while companies, I remember those conversations who've where everyone was saying, oh, events are going away all the in-person because tech is driving everything, everything's gonna be remote. And it's like we're still human. There's still a human element where we enjoy community, we enjoy people. There's an exchange that happens, even I know this conversation is facilitated through tech, but there's a there's the ability to connect with another human being. Um, and I do think, yes, I think there's a space for the virtual type of engagement, of course, but even like with sales teams, and we talk with so many different companies, Hoop, and and leaders that they might have teams across multiple countries and they're still making intention to get together as a team because it brings strength to the team, it brings community. Um, I want to ask you this conversation has been so good, especially from the global perspective about how businesses can, you know, of course, scale and look at how they want to do that, but remaining flexible. I think that that's so important. Um, as we wrap up, what I'd love to ask you is for leaders that feel like um maybe they haven't, they know that they, there's some awareness that they know they need to change, maybe the way that they lead to make space for newer generation, younger generation or newer leaders, maybe they don't know how to go about doing that. As a leader yourself, what are some ways that you would recommend those stepping into a new type of leadership or making space for others? What are some things that you would recommend them to do on a personal level in developing themselves as leaders?

Speaker 25:17

Yeah, I would um yeah, I mean, I mean, get yourself, of course, involved in projects. Uh I mean, every company, especially I mean, especially in TAC, I mean a tech, we we also are a combination of a few companies that came together. So as a as a result, in order to get the best out of all the different parts of the organization, you start organizing yourself a bit according to projects to streamline certain operations, processes or uh products, etc. Get yourself involved in the different projects. Um I thoroughly promote people to really just take the dive and live abroad for some time. I mean, I also started by doing a uh during the week only uh work for a year where I was flying back every weekend. Then when you get the taste of it, you yeah, you go longer. Um there's no better way than on a daily basis immerse yourself in a different culture, and then yeah, that that opens up many, many things. Um I can tell when new salespeople come in if they are a bit more multicultural, if they have been living abroad somewhere, uh because they are typically um a bit more flexible in their ways of doing, asking, not making too many assumptions, uh yeah, easier to connect. Yeah, it's uh that's so good.

Speaker 2 26:47

Yeah, so remaining flexible and you know, as as you talk about just take the jump, right? Just go live abroad. I agree. I think I think sometimes we can be so narrow-minded as individuals. And even if it's a short-term, you know, stint of some kind, go get the experience, go immerse yourself in another culture with another peop people group. Um, I think that we all have something to learn from one another um across so many different countries. And we don't always have the right way, right? There's a room for everyone.

Speaker 27:20

No, there I mean there there is hardly a right way. I mean, there's a just way, maybe, but right way, I find it hard to see. It's uh it makes it fun.

Speaker 2 27:31

Um it does.

Speaker 27:32

So yeah.

Closing And Thanks

Speaker 2 27:33

It absolutely does. Well, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast for Elements of Culture. You certainly have brought many elements to your cultural background, and we so appreciate your leadership. And we look forward to keeping in touch with all the things that you have your hands set to. So thanks again for joining.

Speaker 27:49

Thank you for having me. Uh both of you.

Speaker 2 27:51

You're so welcome.